White Rabbit Comments

Comments On "White Rabbit"
To read the original article see
http://thundercloud.net/infoave/white-rabbit-rant.htm

To see what the average doctor earns (based on specialty)
see http://thundercloud.net/infoave/rants/doctors.htm

A Note From TC:

We received hundreds of comments on our White Rabbit rant. We have selected a few of them so that those of you who are interested can read some of them. While we could choose only a few of the responses we received which generally agreed with our White Rabbit rant, we are publishing both of the negative responses - and one that was neither 100% in agreement or 100% in disagreement with me.

Whether or not, I am right in my assessment of the medical establishment, it appears I'm not alone in my belief that it's basically all about money. Doctors, because they spend so much time in school (but a relatively brief time compared to their earning potential) come out with a sense of entitlement and an air of aristocracy that most other professions don't imbue. This is not to say there are no good doctors or that there aren't plenty of doctors who care about healing more than they do their own lifestyle and their portfolios and social status.

Me? I'd much rather have a doctor that cared more about me than his Wednesday golf outing at the local country club or what model Porsche he's going to lease next. Yet, the only thing you hear doctor's complaining about isn't the loss of patients to cancer or other dreaded diseases, but about how high their medical malpractice premiums are. Ironic. So if it's not all about money, what's it all about.

But if you read these comments, no matter which side of the issue you're on, you have to admit the medical establishment has a very bad public image. 99% of the responses we received indicated, to me, that the vast majority of people have a very negative perception of doctors, hospitals, drug companies, and insurance companies. If it is not more about the money than the patient, why doesn't the medical community spend more time educating the consumer instead of funneling millions of dollars to Washington to influence congress in ways that ensure that the status quo will never change.

A Comment From Janice:

I agree with you about Cancer and the money end of things. I don’t give anything to Cancer Research and other similar ‘charities’ and haven’t for a long time. I often think that the drug companies and researchers do not really want a proper cure for many illnesses. Every now and then they have to come up with something to justify their existence, but never a complete cure.

I love your Rants, your articles etc. and have your home page as my home page both at work and at home. Thanks for everything you do.

Martha's Comments:

What a great article and so very true! Just the other day I was just talking about why no cure for cancer yet and thought the very same reason you have. Thanks for the great job you are doing and sharing it with all of us. Martha

Comments from Cheri (R.N.)

I have followed your rants for a long time but this one really got my dander up! I am a nurse and believe me if there was a cure for cancer out there a fortune would be made from it! I mean more money than all of the cancer treatment centers in the world and all of the Oncologists in the world. The suffering some cancer patients endure is beyond belief and I am not just talking about the emotional part. Just try and imagine a woman on her knees begging a nurse to end it all for her because the pain was so unendurable and no medications were helping her. No human would hold back a cure once witnessing that.

One last thing about your rant about doctors. If you could see the kind of life these guys have you would certainly rethink your opinion. A twelve hour day is nothing for them and I mean every day. Their weekends are never completely free. Their holidays are never completely free. AND they are completely responsible for whether their patients live or die.

If you are not inside the medical profession you probably believe (as I used to) that there is a cure for for just about everything. Well honey guess again. There are more things you can't cure than there are things you can cure.

I am sorry you are so misinformed and believe me you are not the only one. If there was really a cure for cancer (and there are about a gazillion different kinds) some tiny country in the world would be making a mint and we would all be beating down the door to get there.

Cheri, RN

Beaux Comments on White Rabbit

RIGHT ON! I have wished it a hundred times that I should have never let them pressure (yes pressure) me into taking treatments for the cancer I have. Your right. It's all about money. My home is gone and life as I once knew it was totally destroyed by them. All you have to do is look at the cars they drive while there patients can barely pay for the gas to get their old clunkers running. Thanks for taking the time to write White Rabbit.

Beaux

Elaine K. Writes...

I, too, was once a bleeding heart liberal - and I agree with you! There are a few younger doctors out there who care - my sister is in Hospice right now and the attending physician is in his early 30's (he went to school with one of my kids!!!) - and he is very caring. Dr. Spence is a family doctor (don't know of any oncologist who works directly with hospice - perhaps because Hospice doesn't insist on $$ for services??). He isn't out on the golf course or the tennis courts during office hours, makes rounds at the hospital twice a day & he doesn't he drive a fancy car - he's just a young family man with a great bedside manner! I hope there are still a few like him around in the next 20 years or so!!! Love your rants.

Elaine K.

Comments from Mrs. N. Porter

Wow -- you really do distrust, and perhaps even dispise (sic), our medical community -- at least that's the strong feeling I get from reading this rant. (Am I wrong?)

First of all, I feel fortunate to live in a country which has the best medical system in the world -- and that will only remain so until the Clintons get their hands on it and completely destroy it with their socialist policies and beliefs. Socialized medicine does not work, especially if it's run by the government. One need only to look north to Canada for proof of that!!

Secondly, I do not begrudge competent, dedicated doctors in the USA any amount of money they are able to earn -- they deserve it. (Why is it our citizenry does not bat an eyelash at the multi-million dollars paid to the self-indulgent, self-absorbed, crotch-grabbing, talentless arrogant Hollywood "stars" -- what do they contribute to our society but to further its decline into perversion and immorality?!! Any star who has any morals and publicly declares it is immediately blackballed in Hollywood -- Charlton Heston and Tom Selleck come to mind. ) But I digress.

I'm sure you know what dedication it takes to become a "rich" doctor: upon graduation from high school, 4 years of undergraduate school and 4 years of medical school. (And it's not cheap -- the majority of doctors will be paying for college and medical school for decades to come -- the bill is usually in the hundreds of thousands of dollars.) Then you put in 3 to 4 years as a resident, while, if you're lucky, you'll be paid approx. $30,000 annually!! And your education must never stop -- you daily and continually must commit to reading the latest journals and articles to keep up with all medical updates!

I feel very strongly about this subject. I watched my son strive from kindergarten thru to the top of his class in high school, college and medical school. I agonized right alongside him as he tried to make the determination as to where in the medical field he would do his very best work. These are decisions not easily made by doctors who want to be the best in their field and best serve their patients. Should we reward such dedication by making doctors take a vow of poverty??

When I hear uninformed clueless people bash those ***-******doctors, my response is: the next time you feel in need of a medical professional, go to your local mechanic for assistance. (No disrespect to mechanics as my husband was one.) You can rest assured that a mechanic does not have the hundreds of thousands of dollars in educational loans hanging over his head to be paid; but you know what -- you'll no doubt end up paying as much if not more to him as you would to one of those "rich" doctors!!

I do agree that there are those in the profession for the money only -- they deserve your criticism -- but we need to be careful not to paint all doctors with the same broad brush. There is good and bad in every field (even lawyers & politicians, believe it or not) as I'm sure you'll agree.

Please forgive my rant, but as one who has observed the making of a doctor first hand, I just couldn't resist. I do agree with you on global warming -- I am not going to lie awake nights agonizing over the earth warming .06% of a degree every 1,500 years while the terrorists are continually plotting our demise!! The word "priorities" immediately appears before me!!!

P.S. Can't wait for a rant on present day politics from a one time bleeding heart idealist turned cynic!! I'm sure you have a vast unending source of knowledge there in the state of Michigan -- sorry, just kidding, had to get that in!!

Mrs. N Porter

Mrs. Forbes' Comments

To Mrs. Porter

I am from Canada - and I do resent your comments about our socialist Health Care. At least I can go see a doctor and know I can afford to go and when I am sick and have to go to the hospital I will come out of there without ending up in the poor house as many of my cousins south of my border. When we go into hospital to have a baby we do not have to pay for every little thing we need it is under our medical. When given medication we do not have to pay for every little pill that is given to us. Perhaps you should have a little closer look at our SOCIALIST MEDICAL before you comment

Mrs. Forbes

Comments from B. Mason

I would like to comment on Mrs. N. Porters comments about Canadian health care. I would like to know what she pays per month for full medical care, I bet it's a hell of a lot more than we do. My husband and I pay $14.40 per month for our health care. We don't pay anything for hospitalization or ER visits. The company we work for pays 80% of our premiums and even if they didn't it would still only be $72 a month. If we were low income we would pay a reduced fee or no fee at all. No Canadian is denied health care and if they have an unexpected hospital stay they don't have to worry about going bankrupt to pay for it. I receive great health care. I think she should do a bit more research before slamming another country's health care.......Ok done ranting now........Thanks for letting me!

Comments from "MC"

Well, TC, you were certainly right that some of your Canadian readers might have something to say about Mrs. N. Porter's comment "Socialized medicine does not work, especially if it's run by the government. One need only to look north to Canada for proof of that!!" Steam is still coming out of my ears about that one. I can't imagine what she is basing her comment on, but I'm sure she hasn't a clue how it works up here. All I know, is that if it wasn't for socialized medicine in Canada, I may not be around today. And after having lived for 10 years in the States, I think I am in a position to make a knowledgeable statement. I have survived cervical cancer and breast cancer, only because of the early screening tests that are provided by our socialized medicine. My 78 year old mother, has survived kidney cancer and pancreatic cancer, only because of early testing. And I know several women in the States who had to have mastectomies, because they couldn't afford to have mammograms and it was not caught early enough, whereas I did not. I understand that your paid coverage has improved since I was there and I don't claim to know how your current health care works. Socialized medicine is not a perfect system. It encourages fraudulent claims and a lot of immigrants come here to have their FREE $150,000 operations. But as I get older, I am VERY glad that I have socialized medicine.

Comments from Roger S.

So glad to hear from someone that is feeling the same as I. About how it has become all about the money. I have been saying everything you've written for about twenty years or so. And, I too, used to be the one to think that if you were good, practiced what you learned in Sunday School, practiced what you learned in The Boy Scouts of America, and practiced the "Golden Rule", then lots of good things would happen to you. Now-a-days, it just sets you up for easy pickin'.

Doctors were there to heal, Teachers were there to teach, Preachers were there to preach, and believe it or not, Politicians were actually elected to do the bidding of the people. But, that's history. (You failed to touch on the money approach of the later "tongue in cheek"). Perhaps another "Rant"?

I see all of the present as nothing more than a modern approach of Hitler and Germany, or the Roman Empire. A lot of other power seeking individuals and countries who wanted to control the world escape me now, ... for money obviously. We (America) are setting ourselves up for the great fall, or just another repeat of history. And the beat goes on ... or does it? I was beginning to think I was off my rocker. Was there no one else that could see what was actually happening? No, I am not one of those sign carrying doomsayers either.

And while you are at it, why not approach the "Raping of America" by the few, & for the few. How can the expenditures of billions of dollars daily just to run (and subsidize) our government and political regime not equate back to actual usage of the earths resources? And if we, the politicians, can find no immediate use for it ourselves, then let's just "give" it away so our own poor, elderly, or misfortunate can't use it either. What most politicians fail to see here is that the earth is just a tiny ball, and when those resources are gone, they are ALL Gone. And now over population can't be seen anymore either, having just become a way of life (perhaps also in the best interests of the few). While we tend to burn our resources up as fast or faster than we can produce them.... like there's a never ending supply... somewhere beyond.

What do we do about it? Nothing..., and that's what they, the few, already know. I have become the skeptic of everything. I analyze everything I see and hear, especially the major news broadcasts, right down to the tiniest TV commercials, and can usually figure out the gimmick or the angle that isn't readily apparent to the unwary eye. It seems that it's always there, hidden somewhere. I am also hailed as a cynic.

I know the Cancer Center of which you speak, my little brother died there last year, and another brother was in there this year. It really is almost humorous as to how fast they want to get you cured (or otherwise) and out of there when there isn't any insurance monies or rich families reserves to sponge up, and the differences in the attitudes of the people serving you sure differs with such also. Another story, and like you, there I go...

I can't accuse you of cynicism, seeing you as but another of the few able to see beyond the plastic surfaces of two dimensional subjects and on into the actual meat, the third dimension of the "real world".

Thanks for your weekly insights, they do provide for very interesting reading.

Roger S

Comments From Deb

I agree. I have had nothing but quacks, frauds, and pill pusher for doctors. Not one of them has known anything about nutrition or life style, it is all about sickness management and keeping one somewhat ill – that is where the bread and butter is for them. They have refused to listen to me when I try to tell them something and actually end up being right they can’t even admit it. I have almost been killed twice by them, once for a blood infusion and another time for a pregnancy that went wrong – I tried to tell them what is happening ahead of time and they won’t listen.

I gave up; don’t even go any longer period. I treat it however I can and in time get past it. I am relatively healthy, will not take their pills (poison) eat well and exercise. I will not be injected with those so called “flu” shots or any other vaccines. My weight - 118 at 5’6’’ and am 56 year old female. I can still touch my toes standing and sitting too. Pretty good considering more then half of the population is fat and lazy. I feel sorry for them because most of it can be prevented if they’d eat the right foods and walk to the store instead of sitting in the cars drive area waiting for the closest parking space. The food producers are not better then the pill pushing doctors and the pharmacies manufactures behind them; feed the populations crab and make loads of money.

I do not eat dairy products, limit meat, drink soda or those so called fruit juices either and I also refuse to have my boobs radiated – the one thing every one knows can cause cancer. And when it happens one is fed poison! If the world lasts long enough one day out so called health care system will be called barbaric.

Deb

Lena Writes...

Dear Thundercloud and Eightball,

I do love you both. This rant has me laughing and crying both at the same time. You are soo right in what you have written in this rant.
And you know that there really is a cure to all of this but no one will take it. Start to do meditation and forget about how much you have to earn, live better and eat better. Grow you own when you can. And most of all no stress. Yes I know time to do all the other things in life that you have to do!!! But still it could be worth a try??? Mind you for most it is mostly to late to start on a new path, to many commitments to meet each week. And you think that you are cynical, I am in there with you.

They say that money is the root of all evil and I sure believe that. Cancer treatment is very expensive, and I have lost one friend to the horrid C. She was tried on a new medication but not monitored so she died, I sometimes feel unnecessary. I mean I am no doctor but surely there should been visits every month at least to see how she was progressing in this new wonderful medication. Well the doctor must have been paid heaps and not a lot of effort on his part. Biggest effort on my friend's part!

Yes we take pills for this and that, when we should be eating better and make sure what is in the stuff we buy from the supermarket. Trans fat being the latest thing over here in OZ. There is also a book that I want to get my hands on that has taken most of the products from the supermarket and looked at the labels and put it all in this book and you just go and shop with book in hand to start with. Getting all the best of a bad bunch. Hope I can get a copy of this as I like to try for myself.

I hope that I will never have to resort to leeches and maggots. But at least the maggots really do work, yuck yuck. I have cold shivers going up my back just thinking about it. As for leeched I have had the unfortunate of having one on me as a child and there is no way one would ever come back onto my skin with my permission. I would have to be heavily sedated for sure. Maybe we need to go back to trade one good for an other, like in the dark ages. Ha ha. I am not sure that would work in today's world either. Money rules, if you have not much you are worth nothing, and if you have lots most look up to you. Fair? No I do not think so. I better stop there or I go on forever.

Bear hugs from Lena

Darla's Comments

Dear TC & EB,

I agree 100% with your rant regarding the cure for cancer and global warming. All around the country there are fund raisers yearly that raise thousands of dollars for cancer. My mother died from cancer 26 yrs. ago at the age of 59. The progress regarding a cure has not advanced much since she passed away. I use to give money to the cancer society but have stopped because I feel that much of the money isn't going for research or a cure but lining some scientist pockets. Regarding the global warming, I do feel we need to change the way we pollute our earth but I also agree that money is the incentive for many scientist to say whatever, just to put money in their pockets. What ever happened to people trying to find ways to make the earth a better place to live and not just for the money?

Darla

Comments From Margaret

Jolly good article !

Funny really--went to a heart specialist recently--being a pensioner in Australia, most of our medical bills are "bulk billed" which means the government pays-least thing they can do, having paid taxes all our working lives !!

Now, this man is built like a rake-thin man he is.

After the tests, he told me 'nothing is wrong, you are over weight-take this 'This' was a packet of Optifast-one drinks drinks a glass of this mixed with water 3 times a day.

No diet, no concern over the genes and heart attacks in my family--nope--not even a good diet. Not even the fact that i am 5'8" and about 85-90 kg nope-wonder who is bribing him and how much he gets ??

Won't be going back--actually i told him off about his attitude---I was quite incensed--given a suitable diet I could understand.

But I suppose, me being 68,I am on the outer anyhow. .... you have to laugh !

Cheers

Margaret

Willabelle's Comments

You are so "right on" with this Rant! Where is all the money that we contribute to cancer "research" going? Not to finding a cure, I guess. Too bad the drug companies are in cahoots with the Feds--like you say, it is all about the money. Thanks for your great newsletter.

Willabelle

Comments From Cindy

Living with major medical as I do, it's even easier to become cynical. My son and I have one of the rare diseases that you described, and fortunately (NOT!) for us, last year we were cut off the only treatments out there that can help us any at all----all because of changes in our how insurance pays for things. So yep, I'll be the first to step right up and tell you that IT'S ALL ABOUT MONEY!!! In effect, they might as well have said to us, "pay this or die". And since we can't afford the huge outrageous co-pays ($10,000 up front per year every year, plus around $600 per month before they'd even ship the medicine for our treatments, not to mention the outrageous cost of infusing them to boot), here we are staying about as sick as two people can get, wondering which illness will finally be the final one for us. Talk about how that feels to a parent, knowing that you have to watch this happen to your little son and everywhere you turn to try to get help, you're turned down because "uh-oh, your husband's GROSS income just barely exceeds our allowable qualifying limit, so we cannot help you."

RAVE ON THUNDERCLOUD! You're not the only cynic in the world. Just live with major medical---it will teach you what the real world is all about very, very fast. And yes sir, MONEY RULES.

Cindy

Comments From Elaine H.

First of all I absolutely loved "White Rabbit" can you tell what generation I am from? And no I didn't get into the drug scene. That spot was taken by older brother.

But back to your rant. So many things you said I couldn't agree with more! As a cardiac nurse believe me I say many of the same things to my family, never to patients of course. People want an instant fix, give me a pill, give me surgery but don't ask me to change my lifestyle. Don't ask me to get off my fat ass and move. And by all means don't ask me to quit eating at McDonalds! Eightball you have struck a nerve with me! I could go on and on but I wont.

Ok let's talk about the pharmaceutical companies. They do rake in obscene profits, but it only takes one class action suit to bankrupt them and lay off 1,000's. Example, Pfizer in Ann Arbor and other places in Michigan. Let's talk about the not enough flu vaccine last year, why is that in a country such as ours? Because of class action law suits for a few that had a reaction. Good ole Geoffrey Fieger and John Edwards type lawyering. So the flu vaccine was made from a company in England. What about silicone breast implants? What a debacle that was! It bankrupt Dow Corning. Now how many years later they are proven to be safe and back on the market (which I always thought there were in the first place!) Meanwhile for all those years silicone implants were not available. American women had to go overseas or deal with saline implants. Not a good choice for a woman undergoing mastectomy. Let's talk about Vioxx - another class action suit that will most likely bankrupt a pharmaceutical company. Yet have you seen the awards being sent down by juries? It's ridiculous! People want an instant fix with 100% guarantee that what they take will have NO side effects. As long as our judicial system remains the way it is pharmaceutical companies will be slow to start new research. Why should they? It take millions and millions of dollars in research to bring a product to the testing phase, let along make it to the market. Yet a class action law suit could wipe them out. I don't believe in Socialized medicine but I do believe that our Canadian and European neighbors are much smarter in this department.

Now doctors.......I have worked with them most of my adult life. By the way I am 53 (just this week) and my daughter age 27 is a doctor. Graduate of Johns Hopkins in biomedical engineering and medical school Georgetown. She is a bright girl obviously, graduated from Hartland HS in good ole Michigan. So we paid for undergrad at Hopkins which cost us a small fortune. Med school she had to finance. Came out with about $200,000 debt. She is now in her residency and making money finally, a whopping 40K a year! It will be years and years before she can pay off her debt. And to be honest only the very specialized make obscene amounts of money. Procedures ....everything is about procedures. So a cardiologist doing heart cath, stents, angioplasty day after day is making big bucks! GI docs, eye specialists doing all the laser, cataract, glaucoma surgery make big bucks! It's all about procedures and surgeries. The average doc out there in family medicine, internal medicine, pediatrics, they don't make all that much money for the amount of years that went into their training. The execs at Ford and GM make much more! Doctors and nurses are leaving their fields in record numbers, especially nurses. I quit now because I could rant all night LOL.

Enjoy the rest of your weekend.

Elaine :-)

A Final Comment From TC

We really appreciate all your comments on this and all our rants, whether or not you agree with me. The idea is to stimulate discussion and perhaps encourage you to think about things in a different way. You won't always agree with me nor I with you, but I will always respect your right to speak and think as you wish. I hope you continue to extend the same courtesy to me.